:: OK, now you've clarified that to Chad. What about "the user"? ;-)
::
:: I believe the confusion Chad is talking about might be concrete among
:: new users. I experience (and try to cure) this same confusion in new

EXACTLY.

:: users all the time, but can the project recognise there might be
:: somethiong to address? If so, can anything be done about it? If so,
:: what?

Alter IBPhoenix website a bit to clarify this.

:: Every high-end RDBMS I know of has an interactive console. In the last

Well except FB. So either that means:

1) FB is not a high end RDBMS.

2) Just doesn't have one - although EVERY other one does.

:: ten years or so these consoles have gained GUIs as an effect of the
:: passing of time. Firebird hasn't one. This is being noticed by
:: potential users. Do we want more users or do we prefer to keep

Exactly.

:: saying that they're one their own and should hunt for a tool?

Exactly.

:: Would you mind letting the developers discuss and decide? My guess is
:: that this will happen, sooner or later. It just needs someone to do
:: it. I don't think that many people in the Firebird Project share your
:: opinion, judging from past discussions.

That's what I've said as well. With all respects to Helen - she is NOT in
touch with the average user base. She may be very well in touch with the
internal development team, but the needs and views are VERY different.

:: nonetheless maintained because they serve a need. Some users have the
:: need to do just that without using the command line, they need to do
:: it primarily on Windows and they need to have the tools out of the

And they don't want to go hunting up docs and toggling -this and -that until
it works.

:: box. Firebird might decide to support these needs or not. Supporting
:: user needs is what gets a product more users, AFAIU.

Not only gets more users, but stops turning users away as well.

:: doenload a GUI console from there. "You can find everything on the
:: IBPhoenix web site", I hear you say. Then tell me why new users are
:: confusing Firebird and IBPhoenix...

Because IBPhoenix is not clear as to what it is, and is not.

:: H> Nonsense. Get the OpsGuide for IB6 and learn how to use the command-
:: line
:: H> tools. Most of them have a console shell for interactive use -
:: including
:: H> isql. Or, if that's really TOO much like hard work, read the
:: releasenotes
:: H> and get you a GUI.
::
:: I'll let the readers judge which of these paragraphs is more nonsense.
:: :-) I think you've been into IB/Fb for too much time to understand the
:: perspective of a new user.

Which is exactly what I said. :)

:: Yes, firebird-general might be a more appropriate area for such
:: discussions. But I think Chad's feedback and concerns have been
:: expressed quite clearly already for anyone to consider them.

And the reason I originally posted on FB-devel is this excerpt from
IBPhoenix:
" so any problems, please feel free to provide feedback to the
firebird-development list"

I also found it somewhere else, but cannot find the exact page now.