Hi Adam,
I don't know about the situation in US, but basically, I got the
impression that Firebird is very internationally composed so it
doesn't necessarily need to be US based.

Apache is a foundation. In my HowTo I suggest to rather use an
association for Firebird.

I agree it's not really trivial, but the problems are not the cost
for the constitution, it's more organizational problems, finding a
way for the association to be operational with members so physically
distant located from one another.

A low number of members can fascilitate things somewhat. On the other
hand a certain number of members is needed for the stability and in
order for the "meritocracy" concept to work.

There are many questions of detail, but, at least in my country, cost
for constitution of such an association wouldn't be an issue.

The only actual cost is for registration in the "registry of
commerce" which is required if the association will have a commercial
activity with a certain turnover. In that case there are also
commercial accounting requirements, but it's not all that complicated.

However, the very international nature of the group makes that the
association would need some "specialties" ;)

Also the meritocracy aspect would merit some detailed study,
especially the question under what conditions members who don't
contribute to the project anymore would also leave the association.

As Mark said correctly, it's not an urgent issue. I really don't find
the time for such study the next 6 - 8 weeks, but could look at it
more closely after that and provide some more information, if that
should be of interest.

Best regards
Markus.

--- In IBDI@y..., "Adam Clarke" <Adam.Clarke@S...> wrote:
> Starting a US based Not For Profit Organisation is apparently quite
> expensive.
>
> The Apache people probably have someone who could give a few
pointers
> (www.apache.org)
>
> Also these guys are doing it right now...
> http://www.spindl3top.org/index.php
>
> They used a temporary commercial company to raise the funds
(selling things)
> to affort the Not for Profit setup costs.
>
> Cheers
> Adam
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <markus.soell@b...>
> To: <IBDI@y...>
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:53 AM
> Subject: [IBDI] Re: About IBDI
>
>
> > Hello Ann,
> >
> > > So now, it's a new model - quite exciting - something of a
> > > meritocracy where merit accrues to activity and knowledge.
> >
> > I'm glad you agree to have Firebird as a non-profit venture. I've
> > said I had no preference because, being new, I'm not in a
position to
> > have one. But to be honest, I find the not for profit concept much
> > more exciting and I'm sure it's also much more encouraging for all
> > the active contributors because, this way, everyone is really
part of
> > it. Firebird belongs to the Firebird community, that's a very good
> > feeling!
> >
> > >
> > > >If Firebird shall not sell CDs, in order to leave that
activity to
> > > >IBPhoenix, I think terms should be found on how part of that
income
> > > >is to flow back to the Firebird project.
> > >
> > > Absolutely. Wouldn't have it any other way. What I plan to do
> > > (subject to being declared barking mad by my partners) is to
include
> > > a Firebird stipend in the price of every CD. Listed on the
page,
> > > like shipping and sales tax.
> >
> > Sounds great! Since Firebird isn't organized to manage the sale of
> > CDs anyway, this sounds like a good partnership. Since the non-
profit
> > Firebird is economically independent from IBPhoenix, it will do
its
> > best to also find other forms of sponsoring, but for the sale of
CDs
> > this looks like a good solution. So I think Firebird should give
this
> > a try and not sell CDs itself for the moment.
> >
> > > The question, is where should that money go? To developers I
> > > happen to like? To some organization unnamed? To Markus's new
> > > Mercedes?
> >
> > :)
> > In my opinion, since Firebird is independent and non-profit, it
would
> > be wise to give to the Firebird core a corporate structure
> > (Association), even if it doesn't intend to sell CDs at the
moment.
> > It will seek other forms of sponsoring or, who knows, receive
> > donations, and all such things cannot be handled properly without
> > corporate form.
> >
> > In the medium term this association should be founded and since
you
> > will of course (hopefully) be a member (President?), you will
> > yourself participate in the decision how the money of Firebird
shall
> > be used.
> >
> > Until then, well, who knows, maybe the Association exists before
you
> > start selling anything :)
> >
> > >
> > > >Conclusion: If IBPhoenix wants to sell the CDs and hence build
> > their
> > > >business on everything related to Firebird, they should, in my
> > > >opinion, also adopt the name (Firebird Inc.)
> > >
> > > Wouldn't I jump at that opportunity! IBPhoenix is a fine name,
> > > but tied to the past (IB), and awkward to say. As I wrote
elsewhere,
> > > I answer the phone "Ann Harrison." I tried
answering "IBPhoenix"
> > > for a day or two. My office-mate echoed "I be Albuquerque",
causing
> > > me to dissolve in giggles and ruining whatever impression of
> > > professionalism I might have created.
> >
> > Indeed, I also think IBPhoenix isn't the ideal name for a
business.
> > You should check if "Phoenix Consulting" is available and use that
> > for your business. Sounds much better!
> >
> > >
> > > >and take control of the
> > > >source code repository. I think there is much sympathie for Ann
> > among
> > > >the currently active contributors and such a step would
probably be
> > > >possible (to be discussed with those who have contributed so
far).
> > >
> > > I have no right to control the efforts of those who volunteer
their
> > > time, and no way to pay for the kind of services that are
currently
> > > being donated.
> >
> > Again, thank you!
> >
> > Markus
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >