Alan McDonald wrote:

> Well - you asked for it...
>

Yes ! It's just what I've asked for :-)

> I don't use a framework and likely never will.
>

This is something I have in mind, for delphi we built our own
"framework" that has just what we need no more no less, this brings us
the maximum performance/functionality and minimum overhead possible,
what is a big thing IMHO, but this cost us *too many* hours (in fact we
are developing it constantly over the past 7 years).

> But I came from many years of web dev when there was no such thing as
> frameworks.
> I rely on my javascript, I'm not frightened of mixing presentation with
> logic (in fact, it's my preference) and no matter how hard you try there are
> many places where, to avoid it, is too costly, and I'm happy with my PHP.
>

Yes, I am not a purist, but I think that the separation is a good thing.
Of course could be places where that's not the best thing to do. But
that mixing is something I dislike on WEB development. It's possible to
separate ? (I think so) It's the best alternative ? (I don't know, but I
would love if it is)

> I use a couple of data abstraction layer and presentation files (ezSQL)
>

I will take a look on it... thanks for the pointing it out...

> which means no page I deliver ever requires my webserver to read, filter and
> execute more than about 30K of script versus many bloatware alternatives
> which demand the webserver read well over 500K each time it delivers a page.
> This is unacceptable to me no matter how good my hardware is.
>

This is an important point that I am aware of, and I will put it on the
table before I made any decision. I like to avoid unnecessary code, more
code = more complexity = more bugs.

> IMHO, the web environment is a different environment to delphi,

That's the reason I leave it for so many years :-)

It's a new paradigm for me, I just like to try to minimize the pain

> I see many
> people who are very experienced delphi developers but they cannot even
> contemplate doing web work unless it's via a delphi written ISAPI dll
> filter... I consider this sad. Webservers have always been optimised for
> scripting. The engines are really fantastic and have had many good hours
> spent on optimising their performance, so in my opinion, take advantage of
> all that stuff to the max.
> Alan
> Sorry if you disagree.
>

Alan, there is nothing to be sorry, this is the kind of response I'd
like to have, different opinions and different approaches. I am trying
to learn from your experiences. By the way, I could not disagree with
you for two reasons:
1.) You are right about your point (use the right tool for the job, and
the right tool is the one that the coder is more comfortable with)
2.) I have no experience in WEB development to disagree with anyone :-)

thanks again !

--
Alexandre Benson Smith
Development
THOR Software e Comercial Ltda
Santo Andre - Sao Paulo - Brazil
www.thorsoftware.com.br