> Hi Guys !
>
> I have just subscribed and this is my first message to the group.
>
> I am all new to WEB development and PHP. I am a Delphi
> developer I code classic C/S applications. In fact I did not
> write real code for some years :-) My role now are more a
> front man (I did support, sell the software, do training for
> new costumers and the like).
>
> For some years I have looked at different languages (PHP, Ruby, Java,
> etc.) and different frameworks (Rails, Cake PHP, another that
> is a kind of wrapper that mimics VCL). Note that I am new to
> all of this, so it's hard to me just looking quickly at those
> languages.
>
> I have let WEB development aside because I think it's good
> for browsing data but has a very poor interface regarding
> data entry, to get anything close to the experience provided
> by a desktop app, one need to do a lot of code in Javascript,
> use DHTML a lot and so on, things that I always think to be
> extremely more time consuming to do the same in a Delphi app
> for example. Now we have AJAX in the game, that is one more
> technology to master, but the time has come, I think I need
> to dirty my hands, and put my old brain to learn new
> technologies (let's see if an old dog can learn new tricks ! :-) )
>
> I think the only reliable way to learn anything new is to
> develop something real, I get bored easily and tend to
> abandon the project if it's just "for fun" or just a simple
> test without any real benefit/value for me.
>
> So I will try to make some pages to provide information to
> road warriors users of my ERP software.
>
> I have some options:
> 1.) Start from scratch, and do all the wrong way and improve
> it as I learn it and as I find better ways to do the job
> 2.) Try some framework that will put me in the right path
> from the beginning, but I will have a more increased learning
> curve (besides PHP and all the surrounding technologies I
> will need to learn a FrameWork)
>
> What suggestions can you give me ?
> Should I start from beginning using a framework ?
> Should I start from beginning using a template class ?
> Should I start with a basic interface (HTML only), or should
> I start from the beginning using Ajax and DHTML ? What the
> points you think I should look first and what kind of trouble
> do you think I will have ?
>
> I am sure this is a FAQ, I had a brief look on the message
> history and found a discussion about "a suggested
> framework", I had looked at Code Igniter because Artur Anjos
> told me about it some days ago, it looks like very familiar
> with RoR to me. (just for the fact that both uses the MVC pattern ?)
>
> I am afraid of adopting a Framework and get together a lot of
> things I wouldn't need, a lot of code (and complexity) that I
> will not use, but on the other hand I will start on a paved
> road and the rules of the framework would make me avoid a lot
> of trouble that I would have if I just did it my way.
>
> I have read 2 books about PHP in the last months:
> Programming PHP
> by Rasmus Lerdorf, Kevin Tatroe
>
> and
>
> Web Database Applications with PHP & MySQL <webdbapps_cnode1.html>
>
> Hugh E. Williams
> David Lane
>
> both from O'Reilly
>
> I think that reading those books give me a brief overview
> about the whole thing, but I don't think that neither are
> good examples of doing a real project using PHP, all the
> rules and presentation are mixed together, that does not look
> the way it should be. I understand that both books are
> introductory, but I think it should introduce in the right way :-)
>
> On the past, the tests I had did looks like the same of the
> presented on the books, and that is what I always think was
> wrong with my "projects",
> I need the parts clearly separated (presentation and logic),
> I think the MVC is the way to go.
>
> From your experience how do you think should I start ?
>
> Any comments, links, articles, books, etc. will be more than welcome.
>
> Thank you all !
>
> see you !
>
> --
> Alexandre Benson Smith

You have some pretty strong views and that's fine. It looks like you are
already sold on the framework approach so I'd follow the suggestions made in
the most recent thread here. I think Myles suggested code igniter.
Alan