Hi Helen,

<snip: we are not changing the logo, etc>

Yes, I know that we are not changing the logo. Nigel was creating something
that can be used on web pages, splash screens, help forms, etc.

But our logo is 2 years old, and if someone [Markus?] has a good idea to
improve it, we should at least take a look at it.

I really like the logo the way it was created by Markus Soell.
I really think that we must have a enterprise-like image to be used ALWAYS.
No colour changes, no letter typeface changes, etc. No changes: people will
have something to be used, and they must be encourage to not change it. Yes,
we are not a company. yes, we are not an enterprise. But we have a product,
and if we follow this company-marketing-rules we will be helping the project
to grow up.

> My response was to offer a couple that were more in keeping with our brand
> image - one that was sympathetic to Nigel's own generic design and one

that

> used the (official) Markus Soell logo. (I've done a couple more since
> then, too).

I think that we should have an official place to people to get this logos.
I'm using the ones that you have been so kind to collect in your personnal
pages.
My point is that we need to have an official place to have this kind of
stuff: Logos to be used in Delphi apps, logos to be used in t-shirts, logos
to be used in promoting a product that uses Firebird, etc.

> But the current Firebird logo - regardless of whether it is brick-red, or
> variegated, or black on white, IS our official logo. It's an important
> part of our brand image and there has been NO movement from within the
> project to change it. More than that, it is used on books currently in
> print (see the two Japanese titles on the Publications pages at IBPhoenix)
> and will be used in the cover graphics of my forthcoming book.

Yes, I agree with you 100%.
But what I think we need to avoid is this: Tsutomu Hayashi book, for
example, have used the 'unofficial logo that was created for our web page'.
Daiju Kato book image is not very clear, but I understand that it was used
the lettering from our web site, togheter with the bird. This last one has
the logo and the words on a different place.
All other books don't have our logo at all.

I still see no problems to change the logo, if a new one appears. I'm not
sugesting that we should seek for a new one, but I'm strongly suggesting
that we must have a standard, to help us achieve a brand recognizion. If
this work to build a standard will bring someone with a new idea to change
our brand, I think that we must be open to new ideas.

> The psd files that we currently have from Markus are reasonably scalable,
> but there is a problem when making the white background transparent. You
> get "sparkle" effects from the dithering of the edges. It gets worse as
> the image size scales down. Last year IBPhoenix paid for the logo to be
> redrawn and re-vectored by a professional artist, to make it available for
> use with high-resolution print media. It has been used on the two

Japanese

> books.

Great. Is it possible to IBPhoenix to provide this on the web site? This
will help a lot.

> Reality check - this started out as a proposal for a new gloat logo and it
> seems to be turning into a brand image revolution. Let's be clear - this
> initiative doesn't so far have any sanction from within the Firebird

project.

Yes. I'm guilty. Anytime we have something discussed here that "smells like
Marketing Firebird" I always help to turn this discussion upside down
without changing the subject. :-)

> I disagree totally. We're not a company - we are an open source community
> with an established brand image that recent events have shown us is
> vulnerable to unscrupulous abuse. (Go and Google "Firebird" right now and
> see what I'm talking about...) Markus' logo design is simple, distinctive
> and liked by the members of the project.

I still disagree with you on this. We're not a company, but we should use
company-like methods to market our product. I still like Markus'logo, but I
don't think a logo should be always the same. Maybe some products - like
Coca-cola and Harley Davidson - but we just have a brand and a logo with 2
years.

> Keep this thread on the topic of gloat images and you'll be doing

something

> positive, realistic and relevant to need.

Agreed. (Maybe someone want to start a new thread with some marketing ideas,
so we can keep playing around?)

Helen, can you please post the url of your website that already have this
kind of gloat images?

Artur