| Subject | Re: What Ann Harrison promised (longish) |
|---|---|
| Author | Robert Schieck by way of Helen Borrie |
| Post date | 2000-09-07T00:17:32Z |
In article <4.2.0.58.20000906120005.01dc41b0@...>, Helen Borrie
wrote:
or may not have committed is bringing the community together, I do not!
Maybe everyone thinks that the snipes and numerous messages about the plight
of IBPheonix and Borland cause users to come to this list , it doesn't! I get
to see them unsubscribe.
Maybe everyone thinks that potential users who stumble across this list and
see a community that is divided, claims of a lack of support from the owners
of InterBase. etc., will jump on board and pick up InterBase. I do not. If I
were them I would move on down the road to postgress where there is no
squabbling and there are no claims of a lack of support.
I seem to keep inferring from the messages about the test control system/suite
that if Ann had got a hold of InterBase then she would have released the
entire test suite, which as I have been trying to point out is not correct.
With InterBase OpenSourced, there are only three things of value left.
1) The InterBase Name
2) The InterBase Web Site
3) The full test control system
As Ann outlined, the Test Control Suite is used to make certified builds which
can be sold......
Helen: Feel free to ask for the full test suite, but I doubt that anyone will
give it to you.
Asking for the test control systems and the 24 hour vector test is not an
unreasonable request. As Ann outlined, their plan was to clean them up before
they are released from which I infer that, Ann didn't have time to do it.
If Borland plans to do the same, I doubt that they have had enough time to
clean them up as the InterBase web site hasn't changed in four or five weeks
and it, from a marketing perspective, is more important.
It appears to me that both Ann and Borland expected that the new InterBase
Company would happen and both were caught off guard by the outcome. I suspect
Ann would have made different decisions (fiscal amongst others) and Borland
would have had a management team and plans in place to handle InterBase if
they all new that the New ISC wasn't going to happen. But that is water under
the bridge and everyone is scrambling to pick up their respective pieces.
The community needs to make a decision as to whether they want to cut Borland
some slack and see what they plan or continue to bash. Large companies move
slowly and bashing drives existing and potential customers away. I hope the
community chooses carefully and regulates their decision.
The community also has to decide how they are going to handle the InterBase
R&D people when the show up on this list. You can continue to "jump" them when
the surface on this list and drive them away or welcome them to the community
and use their guidance. After all, the most knowledgable person on the current
releases of InterBase isn't Ann Harrison nor Jim Starkey, it is Charlie Cairo
and he is with Borland/InterBase R&D.
The community also had to decide how they are going to handle InterBase Tech
Support when they surface on this list, and they will surface here. I hope it
is with a warm welcome not a "where is my test suite".
Since I am on a roll here, let me continue....
I put up the original InterBase CVS archive with the expectations that there
would be three of them eventually. Mine, IBPheonix/NewCo/FireBird, and
Borlands. I also expected that the only one left standing in the end would be
Borlands.
You see (please excuse the plagiarism here from one of my favourite movies),
not easy to build and even tougher to modify if you don't have a lot of
experience with it.
What I had hoped would happen with the CVS archives is:
1) someone figures out how to build it.
2) someone create scripts to simplify the build process so everyone can play
the game (many hands make light work)
3) the builds are checked against a known build for accuracy so we have a
known base to work from (there was a plan for this)
4) cosmetic clean ups of the code are done, changes to correct compile
warnings are done and builds are checked against the base from 3
5) when 4 is completed, then bug fixes etc are done.
Unfortunately this is not what happened and you can see the results. On
FireBird, changes are put in and then taken out as they break things. The side
effects of changes are difficult to understand without a lot of experience
with the product.
I should point out that at InterBase R&D, you compile it on windows and
compile on a Unix box to see if you have messed anything up before you put
change back to the archives which is why item 2 was listed above.
Of the three CVS archives, the InterBase one is the best. The InterBase CVS
has a complete set of backed up databases fully integrated in with their build
scripts. I ran over them a couple of time for a windows build and got it down
to a two script build. I was working on getting rid of the korn shell
requirement but I haven't got back to it in a month or so. From their
archives, it was possible to do a complete build including the codes program
with what they presented without a whole lot of work.
I am a committer on the InterBase CVS, I haven't committed anything. All my
changes (very simple stuff) were sent to InterBase R&D and they made the
changes after checking out my requests. As it had been said, Open source needs
a benevolent dictator and InterBase R&D fills the role nicely as they have the
experience with InterBase to assess the side effects of changes.
As an added bonus, the likely hood of getting a build certified off of the
InterBase CVS is significantly higher than from any other site including mine.
Enough stuff, I leave it for the community to make their choices and hope they
choose wisely
Rob
Robert Schieck
MER Systems Inc.
Inprise/Borland/InterBase Search Engine http://www.mers.com/searchsite.html
_______________________________________________
Interbase mailing list
Interbase@...
http://mers.com/mailman/listinfo/interbase
wrote:
> It is a matter of record, whatever you want to say Ann told you...Maybe everyone thinks that screaming at Borland for transgressions that it may
> Please see point 15 of the enclosed email.
> Please would you answer us:
>
> Why do you think it is so important to construct a case against releasing
> the Test Suites?
> What is your mandate for representing the open source developer community's
> view to Inprise?
>
or may not have committed is bringing the community together, I do not!
Maybe everyone thinks that the snipes and numerous messages about the plight
of IBPheonix and Borland cause users to come to this list , it doesn't! I get
to see them unsubscribe.
Maybe everyone thinks that potential users who stumble across this list and
see a community that is divided, claims of a lack of support from the owners
of InterBase. etc., will jump on board and pick up InterBase. I do not. If I
were them I would move on down the road to postgress where there is no
squabbling and there are no claims of a lack of support.
I seem to keep inferring from the messages about the test control system/suite
that if Ann had got a hold of InterBase then she would have released the
entire test suite, which as I have been trying to point out is not correct.
With InterBase OpenSourced, there are only three things of value left.
1) The InterBase Name
2) The InterBase Web Site
3) The full test control system
As Ann outlined, the Test Control Suite is used to make certified builds which
can be sold......
Helen: Feel free to ask for the full test suite, but I doubt that anyone will
give it to you.
Asking for the test control systems and the 24 hour vector test is not an
unreasonable request. As Ann outlined, their plan was to clean them up before
they are released from which I infer that, Ann didn't have time to do it.
If Borland plans to do the same, I doubt that they have had enough time to
clean them up as the InterBase web site hasn't changed in four or five weeks
and it, from a marketing perspective, is more important.
It appears to me that both Ann and Borland expected that the new InterBase
Company would happen and both were caught off guard by the outcome. I suspect
Ann would have made different decisions (fiscal amongst others) and Borland
would have had a management team and plans in place to handle InterBase if
they all new that the New ISC wasn't going to happen. But that is water under
the bridge and everyone is scrambling to pick up their respective pieces.
The community needs to make a decision as to whether they want to cut Borland
some slack and see what they plan or continue to bash. Large companies move
slowly and bashing drives existing and potential customers away. I hope the
community chooses carefully and regulates their decision.
The community also has to decide how they are going to handle the InterBase
R&D people when the show up on this list. You can continue to "jump" them when
the surface on this list and drive them away or welcome them to the community
and use their guidance. After all, the most knowledgable person on the current
releases of InterBase isn't Ann Harrison nor Jim Starkey, it is Charlie Cairo
and he is with Borland/InterBase R&D.
The community also had to decide how they are going to handle InterBase Tech
Support when they surface on this list, and they will surface here. I hope it
is with a warm welcome not a "where is my test suite".
Since I am on a roll here, let me continue....
I put up the original InterBase CVS archive with the expectations that there
would be three of them eventually. Mine, IBPheonix/NewCo/FireBird, and
Borlands. I also expected that the only one left standing in the end would be
Borlands.
You see (please excuse the plagiarism here from one of my favourite movies),
>From a source perspective, InterBase isn't easy. You have to want it bad.It's
not easy to build and even tougher to modify if you don't have a lot of
experience with it.
What I had hoped would happen with the CVS archives is:
1) someone figures out how to build it.
2) someone create scripts to simplify the build process so everyone can play
the game (many hands make light work)
3) the builds are checked against a known build for accuracy so we have a
known base to work from (there was a plan for this)
4) cosmetic clean ups of the code are done, changes to correct compile
warnings are done and builds are checked against the base from 3
5) when 4 is completed, then bug fixes etc are done.
Unfortunately this is not what happened and you can see the results. On
FireBird, changes are put in and then taken out as they break things. The side
effects of changes are difficult to understand without a lot of experience
with the product.
I should point out that at InterBase R&D, you compile it on windows and
compile on a Unix box to see if you have messed anything up before you put
change back to the archives which is why item 2 was listed above.
Of the three CVS archives, the InterBase one is the best. The InterBase CVS
has a complete set of backed up databases fully integrated in with their build
scripts. I ran over them a couple of time for a windows build and got it down
to a two script build. I was working on getting rid of the korn shell
requirement but I haven't got back to it in a month or so. From their
archives, it was possible to do a complete build including the codes program
with what they presented without a whole lot of work.
I am a committer on the InterBase CVS, I haven't committed anything. All my
changes (very simple stuff) were sent to InterBase R&D and they made the
changes after checking out my requests. As it had been said, Open source needs
a benevolent dictator and InterBase R&D fills the role nicely as they have the
experience with InterBase to assess the side effects of changes.
As an added bonus, the likely hood of getting a build certified off of the
InterBase CVS is significantly higher than from any other site including mine.
Enough stuff, I leave it for the community to make their choices and hope they
choose wisely
Rob
Robert Schieck
MER Systems Inc.
Inprise/Borland/InterBase Search Engine http://www.mers.com/searchsite.html
_______________________________________________
Interbase mailing list
Interbase@...
http://mers.com/mailman/listinfo/interbase