> One way to make this better is not to mixed implicit and explicit join
> syntax!!

You're example is fast but don't fit to my needs.

> I can't see the logic here of the outer and wanting to drive it from
> personlistitems. join on person. Presumably, all employees are

persons so

> you have no employees who are not in the person table.

Yes. But there are persons are not employees. A personlist holds
a set of persons. I need all persons in the list plus their
employement data (officenr,..), if the person is an employee.
So I think there is now way around an outer join.

Regards

Francois