>> >> Hey, hey, we have the property as well, it is documented. Having
>> a
>> >> property and defaulting the property to UTF8 are different
>> things.
>> >
>> > That is a bit different.
>> > In Delphi u just open GUI and u see that property.
>>
>> And then? Unless it is defaulted and is not mandatory newbee won't
>> set
>> it.
>
> Bad developer would always find a way to break conventions.
> Unexperienced ones would look "that field... huh? what is it meant to
> be, especially for non-English countries ?" and look docs.
>
> Also the default might be "-- set the value to enable OK button --"

Sorry, you're constructing imaginary cases. That is ok, but if you do
this, then apply same logic to Java world as well.

We are in "unlucky" situation that there is no GUI, but hey, that is
how things are in Java.

>> C'mon, the issue you had is caused by the developers of the system
>> you
>> wanted to install.
>
> Formalist approach.

No, only trying to get both cases to one common denominator.

> That way you may drop all the documentation - it is redundant, anyone
> can get anything just reading Firebird sources. Is it possible ? yes.
> So anything else would be "caused by bad developers". Even bugs are
> not to be documented any more - they are already documented by
> sources
> and "good developers" should completely understand them before
> running

No. I did not say that.

>> One can expect that they know what they are doing.
>
> You mean drop Firebird support to avoid learning its scarcely
> documented gotchas ?

Nope, but do not make the JDBC driver developers responsible for bad
design decisions made long time ago. JDBC driver is a replacement for
fbclient.dll. It is not equivalent to Delphi's component which have
their visual property editors.

>> When I deliver an application with Oracle database, I always specify
>> what NLS settings should be specified during database creation.
>
> I guess you have rather long Oracle experience.
>
> And Oracle would hardly care if one web service small developer would
> not support it.
>
> If FB does not care about beeing used by novices or only by
> old-schoolers, then yes. Let them be hard.

Stop ranting. You asked the question, you were helped. We all agree
that situation with defaulting to NONE is not ok, but that is how the
things are in case of Firebird. I have posted a request to change the
situation in the next major version of Firebird. What do we need to do
more?

>> BTW, same applies to MySQL - the default database charset
>> configuration is
>
> For web-apps MySQL is almost monopoly, they can enforce reading most
> obscrue parts of documentations.

Oh man... what do you expect from Firebird team then? Do we need to
come to you personally and buy you a beer?

Roman