> At 07:50 AM 26-04-01 +1000, Adam Clarke wrote:
> >While (as always) Helen has much to offer on this topic, and I respect

her

> >leadership position in the community please don't under value what Markus
> >perspective has to offer.
>
> I hope I didn't. Markus has proposed a very nice graphic and has offered

some good arguments. I'm sure I acknowledged that.

Helen, this statement wasn't really personal (towards you) but asking that
people who were reading this thread consider the situation from a "New to
Firebird" perspective. Because while the old IB hands often have at least
some understanding of the history, others have none. In addition people
attracted to OSS Firebird because they are dedicated to the OSS model seem
to get a "bad smell" from the project which I think comes from the
"confusing status of everything Interbase".

A site dedicated to promoting OSS Firebird and describing where commercial
support may be sought would be a welcome addition IMHO.

Such a site need not alienate old IB hands but instead provide a place where
OSS only types can get a picture of how Firebird will meet their needs.

> True. I think the recent input from "new faces" (Marcus and Jeff) is a
> valuable indicator that it's time to acknowledge that open source IB has

reached a

> significant stage in its evolution and to reorganise resources

accordingly.

> Borland has shown its cards and it's time to move on, now that they have

removed

> the clutter.

<Cheers wildly> :)

> And so do I. Really, I don't think the community has been in a position

to

> ignore Borland until very recently. For months we have been *guessing* -

now

> we know what it's really about, we can all move forward, adapt and adopt.

But

> change should occur in the context of what's already built: otherwise, we

all

> lose our incentive.

I am glad to hear this. Some of us have been ready to leave Borland behind
from the start. I think Marcus is one of those types. I am also, because I
see that if FireBird is to attract more enthusiastic people such as those
you mention, there needs to be a space that is permanently seperate from the
Borland/IBPhoenix etc politics. Otherwise that smell turns up again, true or
imagined and as a result people will take themselves and their efforts
elsewhere.

Let's face it, since Firebird isn't in the business of trying to attract
start up cash to support itself then it should be in the market for start up
talent, time and enthusiasm. That is after all the currency of the OSS
world.

> Certainly! However, IMO, we have a situation with InterBase/Firebird
> that doesn't exist with MySQL or PG. That is,
> commercial users of InterBase, especially of v. 6, remain very dependent

for

> peer support on the individuals who are
> active in Firebird. In many cases, commercial users have stayed with IB

on the

> prospect of its development moving into > the committed professional

custodianship

> of that group. That matters a lot to Firebird, because those users will

all be

> considering upgrades in the future.

I agree, but we do not need to dump these people, in fact the existing array
of sites cater to these people pretty well. What I think is missing is a
site that focuses on looking forward, promoting FireBird to the new user and
providing a place where the messy history isn't the first thing you need to
understand. That way when a Web Application builder realises just what a
pathetic excuse for a RDBMS MySQL is, they can see quickly and easily that
there is a viable OSS solution in FireBird.

Anyhow, just my opinion for the pot. Thanks for all your efforts supporting
this community.

Cheers
Adam Clarke